A few Quotations from Dr. Jung’s Zarathustra Seminars

A few Quotations from Dr. Jung’s Zarathustra Seminars

Nietzsche’s Zarathustra: Notes of the Seminar Given in 1934 – 1939 (2 Volume Set)

1. Nobody has ever known what this primal matter is. The alchemists did not know, and nobody has found out what is really meant by it, because it is a substance in the unconscious which is needed for the incarnation of the god. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 886

The story says that Zarathustra first became acquainted with the two ministers at the Court of Vishtaspa, and through them with the noble queen whom he converted, and then through her he converted the king. This is psychologically a very ordinary proceeding, it usually happens that way. One of the most successful propagandists of early Christianity in high circles was the Pope Damasus I, whose nickname was matronarum auriscalpius, meaning the one who tickles the ears of the noble ladies; he used to convert the nobility of Rome through the ladies of the noble families. So this is probably a historic detail in the life of Zarathust

ra. Then in contradistinction to certain other founders of religions, he married and lived to be quite old. He was killed by soldiers, while standing near his altar, on the occasion of the conquest of his city. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 5

There are still certain figures which embody this archetype in an almost perfect form: the pope, of course, is the wise old man par excellence-he is supposed to be infallible, which means that he is capable of deciding about the absolute truth. Then every archbishop or bishop is a repetition of that archetype, and innumerable doctor authorities are supposed to know everything and to say marvelous things, even to know all the ropes in black magic. So that archetype is still living. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 21

Instead of saying “Christ,” they used the word Poimen, for instance.

In the whole book of Hermas, which is surely Christian–at least, he was supposed to be the brother of the second pope-the name of Christ is not mentioned at all; he is referred to only as the Poimen.  ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 106

Just where the Vatican is standing today, for example, there was a temple of Attis, and the head priest of that cult was called papas in Greek, and the priest who is still ruling there in the old place is the papa or pope; papa is the Latin form. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 160

Thoth for instance, is the anticipation of the Logos, so he is also the anticipation of Christ inasmuch as Christ is the Logos. Now peculiarly enough, the temple of Thoth is called the house of the net-the fisherman’s net-and the Babylonian Marduk is the Logos and his attribute is also the net.

Then the Pope, as the head of the church, is the living impersonation of the Logos, the church being the body of Christ. He is in the place of Peter who is the representative of Christ, endowed with the apostolic blessing, the grace or the mana that has emanated from the Lord himself. And the Pope’s attribute is the fisher ring upon which is carved the miraculous draft of fishes with the nets. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 319

It is very possible that the Evangels have been compilations made in places like Asia Minor or Alexandria for the use of the Christian communities there. Moreover, it is a fact that in the first century the sacred books were considered only as good and useful literature for Christians to read, and never as infallible divine inspiration.

Of course, the church has the memory of those days so they have put the Bible on the Index, and that is quite right because it is a tempting and contradictory collection of books with very dangerous teachings in them. The Pope reserves the right of the authentic interpretation; in his official position, according to the dogma of infallibility, he is infallible in his interpretation of the dogma. Also, the church, since it holds higher authority than the Scriptures, can make dogma; that gives a basis for an authoritative

body. But the sayings of that institution do not necessarily agree with the teachings of Christ himself. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 475

There is a remarkable example of that in the encyclical [This is Casti Connubii, an Encylical Letter of Pope Pius XI, 31 Dec. 1930.] of the Pope concerning the Christian marriage.’ It is a terrible piece of morality. It deals with love and marriage from an entirely biological point of view, and concerning the personal and human relation of man and woman there is not a word. It is a document that makes me shudder when I read it. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1023

The Catholic church had the power: the pope could introduce the feminine principle, but not into the Trinity, for it would then be a quaternion.

You find that conflict between three and four throughout the Middle Ages in all forms and it really goes back to the fact of that quite insurmountable problem of introducing the feminine element into the Trinity.

For the female meant darkness and evil-hell and woman were practically the same.

You see, that simply comes from the fact that woman is associated with darkness, as the female element has always been in

China for instance, and old China has of course a very much more balanced view of the world than we have in the West, including the Near East which is as unbalanced as we are. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1080

Never mind all the things you miss and that life is very hard anyway: everybody must sacrifice himself. That is plus papal que le pape, more Christian than ever before. We know of no time in history when a pope or a bishop would have educated his nation as Germany is now being educated under a so-called anti-Christian rule; it is much worse than it has ever been, without mercy, without redemption, without explanation. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1515

The Christian herd of sheep is now without a shepherd; it is brought to the sacrifice of the firstlings and killed gregariously, the most efficient way being war. That is the psychology which threatens Europe generally. The old shepherd is done for in practically every country-the herd is no longer led by a benevolent shepherd.  the Pope, or any bishop in the past, was a more benevolent shepherd than the state. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1517

Miss Wolff: When the Pope took on his character of infallibility, did he connect it with that idea of the Holy Ghost?

Prof. Jung: Oh, quite. The infallibility of the Pope is exactly the same as the character indelebilis, only very much more so. A priest would not be able through his character indelebilis to establish a dogma, while the Pope, being the immediate successor of St. Peter, being in the place of the Lord-not as a human being mind you, but in officio-is filled with the Holy Spirit. He is a sort of incarnation of the Holy Spirit, so he can establish a dogma.

Miss Wolff: Is he only infallible in establishing the dogma?

Prof Jung: Yes, only in this function is he infallible; as the head of the Collegium of the cardinals he can establish a dogma by his ultimate decision.  But not even as the Pope has he an infallible character. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1535

Yes, even the Pope has a confessor. You have just read in the papers about the Pope’s last confession. On the one side the Pope is a human being, and on the other side a priest, and he has that divine character in the highest degree because, besides the consecration as a priest, he is the representative of the Lord. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1535-1536

The story says that Zarathustra first became acquainted with the two ministers at the Court of Vishtaspa, and through them with the noble queen whom he converted, and then through her he converted the king. This is psychologically a very ordinary proceeding, it usually happens that way. One of the most successful propagandists of early Christianity in high circles was the Pope Damasus I, whose nickname was matronarum auriscalpius, meaning the one who tickles the ears of the noble ladies; he used to convert the nobility of Rome through the ladies of the noble families. So this is probably a historic detail in the life of Zarathustra

. Then in contradistinction to certain other founders of religions, he married and lived to be quite old. He was killed by soldiers, while standing near his altar, on the occasion of the conquest of his city. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 5

There are still certain figures which embody this archetype in an almost perfect form: the pope, of course, is the wise old man par excellence-he is supposed to be infallible, which means that he is capable of deciding about the absolute truth. Then every archbishop or bishop is a repetition of that archetype, and innumerable doctor authorities are supposed to know everything and to say marvelous things, even to know all the ropes in black magic. So that archetype is still living. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 21

Instead of saying “Christ,” they used the word Poimen, for instance.

In the whole book of Hermas, which is surely Christian–at least, he was supposed to be the brother of the second pope-the name of Christ is not mentioned at all; he is referred to only as the Poimen.  ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 106

Just where the Vatican is standing today, for example, there was a temple of Attis, and the head priest of that cult was called papas in Greek, and the priest who is still ruling there in the old place is the papa or pope; papa is the Latin form. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 160

Thoth for instance, is the anticipation of the Logos, so he is also the anticipation of Christ inasmuch as Christ is the Logos. Now peculiarly enough, the temple of Thoth is called the house of the net-the fisherman’s net-and the Babylonian Marduk is the Logos and his attribute is also the net.

Then the Pope, as the head of the church, is the living impersonation of the Logos, the church being the body of Christ. He is in the place of Peter who is the representative of Christ, endowed with the apostolic blessing, the grace or the mana that has emanated from the Lord himself. And the Pope’s attribute is the fisher ring upon which is carved the miraculous draft of fishes with the nets. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 319

It is very possible that the Evangels have been compilations made in places like Asia Minor or Alexandria for the use of the Christian communities there. Moreover, it is a fact that in the first century the sacred books were considered only as good and useful literature for Christians to read, and never as infallible divine inspiration.

Of course, the church has the memory of those days so they have put the Bible on the Index, and that is quite right because it is a tempting and contradictory collection of books with very dangerous teachings in them. The Pope reserves the right of the authentic interpretation; in his official position, according to the dogma of infallibility, he is infallible in his interpretation of the dogma. Also, the church, since it holds higher authority than the Scriptures, can make dogma; that gives a basis for an authoritative

body. But the sayings of that institution do not necessarily agree with the teachings of Christ himself. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 475

There is a remarkable example of that in the encyclical [This is Casti Connubii, an Encylical Letter of Pope Pius XI, 31 Dec. 1930.] of the Pope concerning the Christian marriage.’ It is a terrible piece of morality. It deals with love and marriage from an entirely biological point of view, and concerning the personal and human relation of man and woman there is not a word. It is a document that makes me shudder when I read it. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1023

The Catholic church had the power: the pope could introduce the feminine principle, but not into the Trinity, for it would then be a quaternion.

You find that conflict between three and four throughout the Middle Ages in all forms and it really goes back to the fact of that quite insurmountable problem of introducing the feminine element into the Trinity.

For the female meant darkness and evil-hell and woman were practically the same.

You see, that simply comes from the fact that woman is associated with darkness, as the female element has always been in

China for instance, and old China has of course a very much more balanced view of the world than we have in the West, including the Near East which is as unbalanced as we are. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1080

Never mind all the things you miss and that life is very hard anyway: everybody must sacrifice himself. That is plus papal que le pape, more Christian than ever before. We know of no time in history when a pope or a bishop would have educated his nation as Germany is now being educated under a so-called anti-Christian rule; it is much worse than it has ever been, without mercy, without redemption, without explanation. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1515

The Christian herd of sheep is now without a shepherd; it is brought to the sacrifice of the firstlings and killed gregariously, the most efficient way being war. That is the psychology which threatens Europe generally. The old shepherd is done for in practically every country-the herd is no longer led by a benevolent shepherd.  the Pope, or any bishop in the past, was a more benevolent shepherd than the state. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1517

Miss Wolff: When the Pope took on his character of infallibility, did he connect it with that idea of the Holy Ghost?

Prof. Jung: Oh, quite. The infallibility of the Pope is exactly the same as the character indelebilis, only very much more so. A priest would not be able through his character indelebilis to establish a dogma, while the Pope, being the immediate successor of St. Peter, being in the place of the Lord-not as a human being mind you, but in officio-is filled with the Holy Spirit. He is a sort of incarnation of the Holy Spirit, so he can establish a dogma.

Miss Wolff: Is he only infallible in establishing the dogma?

Prof Jung: Yes, only in this function is he infallible; as the head of the Collegium of the cardinals he can establish a dogma by his ultimate decision.  But not even as the Pope has he an infallible character. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1535

Yes, even the Pope has a confessor. You have just read in the papers about the Pope’s last confession. On the one side the Pope is a human being, and on the other side a priest, and he has that divine character in the highest degree because, besides the consecration as a priest, he is the representative of the Lord. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1535-1536

1. Soul and body are not two things. They are one. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 355

2. Men are rarely split off from sexuality, because it is too evident for them, but what they lack is Eros, the relational function. ~Carl Jung, Children’s Dreams, Page 313.

3. Even a ghost, if he wants to make an effect on this earth, always needs a body, a medium; otherwise he cannot ring bells or lift tables or anything that ghosts are supposed to do. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 168

4. You cannot be redeemed without having undergone the transformation in the initiation process. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 502.

5. The term self is often mixed up with the idea of God. I would not do that. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Pages 977-978.

6. You [the Self] should not storm at me. If you kill me, where are your feet?” That is what I (the ego) am. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Pages 977-978.

7. You could think of it [Self] as an intermediary, or a hierarchy of ever-widening-out figures of the self-till one arrives at the conception of a deity. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Pages 977-978.

8. You can never get to yourself without loving your neighbour—that is indispensable; you would never arrive at yourself if you were isolated on top of Mt. Everest, because you never would have a chance to know yourself. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1020

9. And if you lose yourself in the crowd, in the whole of humanity, you also never arrive at yourself; just as you can get lost in your isolation, you can also get lost in utter abandonment to the crowd. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1020

10. You cannot individuate if you are a spirit; moreover, you don’t even know how spirit feels because you are in the body. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 202

11. So if you speak of individuation at all, it necessarily means the individuation of beings who are in the flesh, in the living body. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 202

12. It is just an illusion when you think the right thought in your head means a reality; it is a reality as far as a thought reality reaches; the thought itself is real, but it has not become a reality in space. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 202

13. If you fulfil the pattern that is peculiar to yourself, you have loved yourself, you have accumulated and have abundance; you bestow virtue then because you have luster. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 502

14. But if you hate and despise yourself—if you have not accepted your pattern— then there are hungry animals (prowling cats and other beasts and vermin) in your constitution which get at your neighbours like flies in order to satisfy the appetites which you have failed to satisfy. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 502

15. You see, life wants to be real; if you love life you want to live really, not as a mere promise hovering above things. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 508

16. Life inevitably leads down into reality. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 508

17. Life is of the nature of water: it always seeks the deepest place, which is always below in the darkness and heaviness of the earth. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 508

18. It is a general truth that one can only understand anything in as much as one understands oneself. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 742

19. It does not matter whether you do a thing or whether it happens to you; whether it reaches you from without or happens within, fate moves through yourself and outside circumstances equally. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 896

20. Every light, every fire comes to an end, and there would be utter darkness, but there is still left the light of the self, which is the supreme light. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 792.

21. There is no morality, no moral decision, without freedom. There is only morality when you can choose, and you cannot chose if you are forced. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 262

22. The self would be the preceding stage, a being that is more than man and that definitely manifests; that is the thinker of our thoughts, the doer of our deeds, the maker of our lives, yet it is still within the reach of human experience. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 1348

23. I could say just as well that you could never attain the self without isolation; it is both being alone and in relationship. ~Carl Jung, Zarathustra Seminar, Page 797.

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