Küsnacht, 29th March 1946
Arriving from Geneva yesterday I was met by car at the station in Zürich and reached the Seestrasse just before one o’clock.
With C.G. and Mrs. Jung were their daughter and son-in-law, Marianne and Walther Niehus, and two children, a girl of about sixteen and a boy of six – also C.G.’s secretary, Miss Schmid.
We sat down to a lovely lunch – fish mayonnaise followed by beef, then biscuits, and afterwards coffee on the verandah.
Later I had a long talk with C.G. till tea-time, and left about five.
He looks very fit, is most alert, and appears in excellent health though he says his heart is a bit weak – he can’t do hills and must go slowly upstairs.
He spoke of the sense of isolation in Switzerland in 1940.
They were expecting a German invasion, and one day his brother-in-law at Schaffhausen sent a message warning him that the Germans might come that night.
He took his wife and daughter and his daughter-in-law (who was eight months pregnant) to a refugium in east Switzerland by car.
The general plan was that in the event of invasion the Swiss would evacuate the flat ground near Zürich, and fight in the hills where they would blow up the railway tunnels, the Gotthard and others.
This was a big factor, a trump card – Switzerland would be useless to the Germans without communications To Italy.
He listened daily to the B.B.C. and knew that England was the only hope, and that they would never give in.
He said that until 1935 it had seemed possible, in Germany and Italy, that some good could come from Naziism.
Germany was transformed; instead of roads crowded with people without work, all was changed and peaceful.
Then he saw other things and knew it was evil.
He began to speak against it – as at the Oxford Congress for instance – and did so increasingly.
He showed me an American article which had been falsely translated, misquoting him on the subject: his phrase ‘looking with amazed eyes’ (at the trend of events in Europe) had been transcribed as ‘looking with admiring eyes’.
He said it had been answered.
He became so outspoken in his criticisms of Germany that Mrs. Jung was afraid he would get into trouble, with so much German influence in Zürich.
Referring to the rumours of his so-called Nazi sympathies, C.G. told me that his name was on the black List in Germany because of his views, and that he would certainly have been shot at once had he fallen into Nazi hands.
He said that at the Oxford Congress he had asked Göring if he thought there would be a war, and Göring replied, ‘Well, if there is there will be a round table conference later.’
C.G. added that this would never have happened had Germany won.
Of Russia – he said Stalin was clever and no fool.
He [Jung] had feared much when the Russians came into the war; but then he had a striking dream, of which he told me a part:
He was in a vast field with, in the distance, buildings like barracks.
The place was filled with hordes of buffalos (i.e. Germans).
He was on a mound, and Hitler was on another mound.
He felt that as long as he fixed his gaze on Hitler all would be well.
Then he saw a cloud of dust in the distance, and horsemen – Cossacks – rounding up the buffalos and driving them out of the field.
Then he woke and was glad, for he knew that Germany would be beaten by Russia.
This, he said, was a collective dream, and very important.
I told him of the Stalingrad sword incident and of Chamberlain forgetting his umbrella at Godesburgh.
C.G. was most interested in the former, and said of the latter that when people leave without an object that belongs to them it means that they are unconscious of something – as patients forget their notebook or bag etc.; it is not simply an indication that they don’t want to go, or want to come back.
He has had a long correspondence with Father Victor White of Blackfriars, Oxford, and is very impressed by him and his learning.
They publish a magazine, Blackfriars.
Both he and Mrs. Jung told me that he was publishing all his papers about Germany and the Nazis; the book is already in print and will be translated. ~E.A. Bennett, Conversations with Jung, Pages 23-27
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